Chased
09-04-2007, 11:52 AM
( info for someone outside guild )
You touched on this, but I'll throw numbers out there: Bloodlust brooch is 270 AP for 20 seconds out of every 120 seconds. 270*20/120=45, then add the static AP of 72 and get 117. Bloodlust Brooch is, on average, better than Talon of Al'ar right now. If Talon of Al'ar is changed to affect auto shot, I would imagine it will be marginally better than Bloodlust Brooch in terms of hunter dps. However, given that BM is currently the highest dps raid spec, it would be silly to not consider pet dps in addition to hunter dps. Pet's get 0.22 AP per RAP, so Bloodlust Brooch is also adding 25.74 pet AP, whereas Talon of Al'ar gives no benefit to your pet.
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Originally Posted by Greenpiggy
Well, should be relatively easy..
2.1 attack speed means you'll be using 1 special in that time, so 1 shot every 1.05 seconds
That also means you'll be firing an arcane every 6.3 seconds, which should be fine in influencing the next 5 shots in the rotation, so no problem there.
Extra damage on 1 shot:
40*1.02*(1-crit%) + 40*1.02*2.3*(crit%)
Will calculate for a crit% of 30
40*1.02*0.7 + 40*1.02*2.3*0.3 = 56.7 per shot for auto/steady spam
Now - assuming the buff is slightly delayed, this will affect the next arcane(6.3 secs later)
so we then have: 56.7*3/6.3 = a gain of 27dps(*1.03 for FI?) - 18dps if it misses the next arcane shot
If you assumed that it works for auto aswell as you stated above you did, it is not 3 shots that get affected but 6 in the in 6.3 sec time so is 56.7*6/6.3 = 54 DPS gain if you make sure you keep up the buff. But currently seems to only affect special shots, so lets go on only 30~ dps gain for now.
But anyway, thats not very impressive for a trinket slot, and its probably only useful for a MM or Survival hunter who would be threading in arcane and multi into a normal rotation and hence will probably squeeze in an extra special in that time
Can you care the share with me what other trinket adds more than ~30dps per trinket slot for a hunter please? Or in other words what 2 trinkets at a similiar stage of obtaining it? It is ~30 dps for specials only but if you read the description ("Your Arcane Shot ability increases the damage dealt by all other damaging shots by 40 for 6 sec") seems it should affect autos aswell (gogo Suggestion forums all!), but regardless, is hunter only item so alot less competion on it say Tsunami Talisman.
For example. With 10 AP (same conditions as above) roughly you add per auto: (Wpnspeed of 2.9 if you use 2.1 in BM), 10 AP adds 2.93dmg. For SS this is 2.83 dmg per shot and Arcane 2.12 for Arcane. Now on average in 60secs we fire 60/2.1 = 28.57 autos, we fire the same amount of specials aswell and if you focus on your shot rotation you can make sure the debuff is up from Arcane shot all the time, if you spec 2-3 points into imp Arc shot, depending on your lag and such. In 60secs we want say 10 arcane shots which leaves 18.57 SS. So added dmg in 60sec period is 28.57*2.93 + 10*2.12 + 2.83*18.57 = 157 added dmg, 157/60 = 2.62 dps gain. So 10/2.62 = 3.81 AP/DPS. Thus for another trinket to add same amount of dps you need 30*3.81 = 114.5 AP effectivelly on it and 2.8% crit on it (although crit/AP differ as your ratio with AP/crit on your gear change, but lets assume 40AP per 1% crit). And seeing it a fixed amount of 40 per shot, the faster you shoot the more you gain, as once you use faster weapon the more shots you will get a fixed 40 dmg added to it.
Now, I know Bloodlust brooch is very similiar to this but which other trinket would you use with it? As pure dps trinkets (all can use) is alot of competion for it ex. Tsunami Talisman, and rogues will argue it is more usefull for a rogue cause hunter dont need Hit rating on trinket as is alot easier for a hunter to reach the hit cap than for a rogue.
This trinket adds more dps than Hourglass or Tsunami if you gear up correctly and it issimilair to Bloodlust with it only affecting special shots. So I think is not as bad as most think at all, just have to focus and keep buff up so is not entirelly passive trinket and if you are not going for any special trinket like Dragonspine I can see a space for it on the 2 trinket slots you have. (All meant for BM as the post started saying not vailbe for BM, Surv will prob go dual crit trinket and the added AP bonus MM get from talents gives Bloodlust the edge)
So as conclusion I see it can be used as 1 of the trinket slots and you will gain a nice addition to dps, it is not spectacular though as I first hoped cause never actually realised it dont affect auto shots, even according to description it does, but maybe they change this will make this the nr1 trinket for sure then without chaging anything to your shot rotation. (so non haste trinket, cause there is a big debate about how good haste is for hunter and the faster you are able to shoot, dont mean you actually accomplish to shoot faster due to all latency factors and which hurts a hunter more than any other class if your rotation gets screwed)
____________________________________________
Lots more on Al'ar / bloodlust / other tinkets found here.
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t12994-hunter_talon_alal_theorycrafting/
You touched on this, but I'll throw numbers out there: Bloodlust brooch is 270 AP for 20 seconds out of every 120 seconds. 270*20/120=45, then add the static AP of 72 and get 117. Bloodlust Brooch is, on average, better than Talon of Al'ar right now. If Talon of Al'ar is changed to affect auto shot, I would imagine it will be marginally better than Bloodlust Brooch in terms of hunter dps. However, given that BM is currently the highest dps raid spec, it would be silly to not consider pet dps in addition to hunter dps. Pet's get 0.22 AP per RAP, so Bloodlust Brooch is also adding 25.74 pet AP, whereas Talon of Al'ar gives no benefit to your pet.
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Originally Posted by Greenpiggy
Well, should be relatively easy..
2.1 attack speed means you'll be using 1 special in that time, so 1 shot every 1.05 seconds
That also means you'll be firing an arcane every 6.3 seconds, which should be fine in influencing the next 5 shots in the rotation, so no problem there.
Extra damage on 1 shot:
40*1.02*(1-crit%) + 40*1.02*2.3*(crit%)
Will calculate for a crit% of 30
40*1.02*0.7 + 40*1.02*2.3*0.3 = 56.7 per shot for auto/steady spam
Now - assuming the buff is slightly delayed, this will affect the next arcane(6.3 secs later)
so we then have: 56.7*3/6.3 = a gain of 27dps(*1.03 for FI?) - 18dps if it misses the next arcane shot
If you assumed that it works for auto aswell as you stated above you did, it is not 3 shots that get affected but 6 in the in 6.3 sec time so is 56.7*6/6.3 = 54 DPS gain if you make sure you keep up the buff. But currently seems to only affect special shots, so lets go on only 30~ dps gain for now.
But anyway, thats not very impressive for a trinket slot, and its probably only useful for a MM or Survival hunter who would be threading in arcane and multi into a normal rotation and hence will probably squeeze in an extra special in that time
Can you care the share with me what other trinket adds more than ~30dps per trinket slot for a hunter please? Or in other words what 2 trinkets at a similiar stage of obtaining it? It is ~30 dps for specials only but if you read the description ("Your Arcane Shot ability increases the damage dealt by all other damaging shots by 40 for 6 sec") seems it should affect autos aswell (gogo Suggestion forums all!), but regardless, is hunter only item so alot less competion on it say Tsunami Talisman.
For example. With 10 AP (same conditions as above) roughly you add per auto: (Wpnspeed of 2.9 if you use 2.1 in BM), 10 AP adds 2.93dmg. For SS this is 2.83 dmg per shot and Arcane 2.12 for Arcane. Now on average in 60secs we fire 60/2.1 = 28.57 autos, we fire the same amount of specials aswell and if you focus on your shot rotation you can make sure the debuff is up from Arcane shot all the time, if you spec 2-3 points into imp Arc shot, depending on your lag and such. In 60secs we want say 10 arcane shots which leaves 18.57 SS. So added dmg in 60sec period is 28.57*2.93 + 10*2.12 + 2.83*18.57 = 157 added dmg, 157/60 = 2.62 dps gain. So 10/2.62 = 3.81 AP/DPS. Thus for another trinket to add same amount of dps you need 30*3.81 = 114.5 AP effectivelly on it and 2.8% crit on it (although crit/AP differ as your ratio with AP/crit on your gear change, but lets assume 40AP per 1% crit). And seeing it a fixed amount of 40 per shot, the faster you shoot the more you gain, as once you use faster weapon the more shots you will get a fixed 40 dmg added to it.
Now, I know Bloodlust brooch is very similiar to this but which other trinket would you use with it? As pure dps trinkets (all can use) is alot of competion for it ex. Tsunami Talisman, and rogues will argue it is more usefull for a rogue cause hunter dont need Hit rating on trinket as is alot easier for a hunter to reach the hit cap than for a rogue.
This trinket adds more dps than Hourglass or Tsunami if you gear up correctly and it issimilair to Bloodlust with it only affecting special shots. So I think is not as bad as most think at all, just have to focus and keep buff up so is not entirelly passive trinket and if you are not going for any special trinket like Dragonspine I can see a space for it on the 2 trinket slots you have. (All meant for BM as the post started saying not vailbe for BM, Surv will prob go dual crit trinket and the added AP bonus MM get from talents gives Bloodlust the edge)
So as conclusion I see it can be used as 1 of the trinket slots and you will gain a nice addition to dps, it is not spectacular though as I first hoped cause never actually realised it dont affect auto shots, even according to description it does, but maybe they change this will make this the nr1 trinket for sure then without chaging anything to your shot rotation. (so non haste trinket, cause there is a big debate about how good haste is for hunter and the faster you are able to shoot, dont mean you actually accomplish to shoot faster due to all latency factors and which hurts a hunter more than any other class if your rotation gets screwed)
____________________________________________
Lots more on Al'ar / bloodlust / other tinkets found here.
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t12994-hunter_talon_alal_theorycrafting/